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Sunday, July 05, 2009
Imitation or not? YOU be the judge
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68 comments:
I see many of this design of gowns in sl. I dont think it is copy. Just popular style. Some people get big head and become very peranoid.
Are you blind? it's obviously not a copybot,,,check on skirt prims. The designer made the skirt prims of her own, the other one has used the skirt template lol...(one with the round in the middle)
Well I can see the details are not the same. Each skirt have a different volume. The tops show unequal form and the textures are not similar at all.
Is not a copy and everybody can see that.
i dont think its a copy.. the details are very different from each other...it just happens the designers has almost the same idea.. but obviously its not a copy.
https://ssl126.securefastssl.com/cheryllscollectibles.com/images/thumbs/1625.jpg
if i made this in SL would i be copying the picture or those dresses
How many ways to make and design a gown are there? And even given the limited design options, those are pretty different as well.
No, its not copy!
They indeed look very different. It is not about whether it's copy botted or not. It is about the whole Concept behind. The white one is a well known gown in sl, having something look alike half year plus after it first release. THINK! People THINK!
they look different - they are different - so its not a copy :)
hey I watched dress being made that is crazy to saycopy
It is not copybot. Anyone that looks at it can see. One of them was made with a skirt maker.. you can always tell that by the ball in the middle of the skir!
I can see a lot of differences between the dresses and strongly doubt that its a copy. Designers are always inspired by things they see. If they see something in rl and create a design from what inspired them is it a copy?
Definately different! One is clearly better constructed, detail oriented and more luxrious looking than the other! I'd buy that one! Not a COPY!
no-one is saying this is copybot - its painfully obvious it is not - BUT the dresses are similar in style and the original designer has accused the second of copying. When i look around i now see many of this style around - so is the original designer right to be upset?
/me wonders where the original designer got their inspiration from...
I repeat what I wrote above: there's only so many ways you can make a formal white gown...
So which one is the older? Left or right?
The one on the left is the original, i did not show the extra parts on the pink one but it also has extra prim parts
Well, from a craftsmanship level the one on the right is clearly superior in many levels. However I am convinced that you could easily come up with a RL-gown that follows the same principles.
I have this gown (pink) if you see the extra parts on the gown,,There's a huge difference from the original (white). One more thing,,didnt we all copy from RL?
So not a copy!!
I dont believe this is a coy at all it is clear that agnes has much more detail in her design prim by prim, its just a case of similar taste, its happens in the fashion industry many deisgners have similar gowns and garments it happens but its not to say they copy one another, so to accuse another of copying is a little step to far, i feel its just a case of a similar inspiration that has made both designers create this gown
Pink is so much beautiful... Copyboy? I dont think so, I have seen a lot of similar styles around in SL .. if we are going to judge this, we have to judge others I guess... Dont get that fucking paranoid... Copybot is when u have the same volume, details, and that!!!! And I agree, if pink is going to be the copybot.. this is the only picture I found very similar to:
https://ssl126.securefastssl.com/cheryllscollectibles.com/images/thumbs/1625.jpg
White one looks like all typical bride dresses... no way to compare both
I am not a designer - and have no side as to which I belong ... but it is fairly obvious that these are two very different dresses - and a very 'common' style of design all at the same time. I personally like the pink one the best - and it is very similar to the picture of the barbie dress... Would love to have seen the big bow on there too... Gorgeous gown, does not look like a copy in the least. Paranoia should not be allowed to halt someones business, their work, etc. Of all the gowns that Agnes has in her shops.... this is the only 'remotely similar' gown that someone has to complain about - and actions were taken? seriously???? this is the land of drama!
sounds like someone is being a butthurt lil brat (the person making the accusations)
I own this gown, the Pink and I am sorry but there are so many differences that I can see between these two gowns, and seriously there are so many designers and designs here that you are bound to get a similar look now and then in fact i can take you to many stores that have outfits that look similar but are not the same, people just need to relax and realise that as in real life with fashion, similarities are bound to happen and I also have to say that I would not trade my gown for the other, it looks better!
None of those dresses are the original ones...
both are copy`s of RL stuff.... u cant say left is the original or right is the copybot... in this world nothing is original for god sake... However, its could be this way: The white dress designer argues that the pink one designer copyboted her/him.... but not the original designer acused blah blah... no... however, its a huge difference between them.... it isnt a copy
Most obviously NOT a copy and anybody with eyes can see that. I think some designers here think they are bigger and better than they actually are. I cant believe that this ever went this far it is soo obvious.
I think to state that one gown is a copy of another is a case of short-sightedness, literally and metaphorically.
There are similarities between the gown but in a world of fashion and dress design, there is only a finite number of variations. I have seen so many designs like these two with different variations - big poofy skirts and sweetheart/strapless necklines that I've lost count. Any similarity here is purely co-incidental..
Personally, I haven't a clue who designed the gown on the left but I know the designer of the gown on the right and I know her to be an honest designer of extremely beautiful, high quality gowns. It would never cross my mind that she would copy another designer and the one who has accused her needs to open their eyes a little wider and stop being so blinkered. They do not own the copyright on a specific style of dress. If this was a blatant direct copy being sold under another designer's name then he/she has every right to be annoyed, but a flimsy allegation such as this needs to be rebuffed and apologised for as it is doing damage to an otherwise flawless reputation.
hm, clearly not the same gown. they are similar in design but so are most clothing in sl. if one person sees a design of a dress on website, in magazine or elsewhere, most likely someone else has seen the same dress and liked it and both have attempted to make it in sl. As a novice clothes designer myself that is exactly what I do. I look in magazines, websites etc for ideas and some i attempt to duplicate from rl to sl. Does that mean because two people saw the same dress and attempted duplicating it, there is a copy bot involved. I think not. Clearly in my opinion, one of these looks much better than the other (i'll not say which one so as not to offend anyone) but to me it's obvious they are not the result of a copy bot. too many differences
Definitely not a copy. Very detailed, very beautiful gown by Agnes.
Agnes is a detail oriented craftsperson who takes great pains with her work. She has more integrity and creativity than to copy someone else's designs. I am proud to wear Agnes' designs.
It is would benefit the entire SL fashion community if the creator of the white dress would spend more time on her fashion designs and less time attacking and criticizing others.
They are both copies of a Mattel Barbie dress. What right does the designer have to claim Agnes copied his/her design? If anyone has been to Agnes' store you would see she does beautiful detailed work and I doubt she would be bothered to copybot someone. Copybot means an exact copy does it not? Well those are not exact copies and if anything Agnes' dress is far more detailed and well done. Quit witch hunting and get back to being creative.
Doesn't look like a copy to me. You really shouldn't start witch hunts like these because in the long run it only makes YOU look bad. Take it easy.
I honestly think that the designer is throwing a wobbbly about the dress possibly because agnes dress is a lot nicer than hers. I think its so stupid its all gone out of hand just from 1 dress and it is clear that agnes copied the barbie picture! How can the designer not see that? is she blind ... lol sorry i just feel its so stupid that for 1 dress ppl are now not accepting agnes at there store all for 1 dress (and i know im repeating but its true) in rl clothes there are some clothese that are the same for example a simple tee-shirt but then ppl change them to make them different and be there own design and copyright.agnes was not copying. p.s. if it was a copy it would be the exact replica of the ther designers dress
As far as I can see, definitely NOT a copy what Agnes made.
Sondra Andel
First I do not think it is a copy, and I think one is far superior than the other.There are many designs in SL that are simular and yet are not copy.
Ah come on.. this should never have come as a dispute.. similar designs happen all the time.. this is not a copy. It's life.. SL and RL gawd.. there are enough problems with real copies without making a drama out of those so obviously not.
The entire discussion about whether or not Agnes Finney copied a design is very disturbing and troubling to me. I asked Agnes if she could custom design a Barbie outfit for a pageant event . After a month of searching for a suitable outfit, I could not find anything that I liked. Thus my personal request to Agnes. She made a beautiful design, which I wore and loved. When I found out that other designers were trying to malign Agnes' reptuation, I was dismayed and heartbroken. I then went to look at the outfit in question, and I can tell you that there is no way in SL world this outfit is a copy. It is a custom designed original for me. The efforts of a few designers to impugn the reputation of Agnes Finney is very disheartening. The efforts to coerce retailers into not carrying Agnes Finney designs is, if not illegal, then completely unethical and should not be tolerated within the SL community.
I honestly think that the designer is throwing a wobbbly about the dress possibly because agnes dress is a lot nicer than hers. I think its so stupid its all gone out of hand just from 1 dress and it is clear that agnes copied the barbie picture! How can the designer not see that? is she blind ... lol sorry i just feel its so stupid that for 1 dress ppl are now not accepting agnes at there store all for 1 dress (and i know im repeating but its true) in rl clothes there are some clothese that are the same for example a simple tee-shirt but then ppl change them to make them different and be there own design and copyright.agnes was not copying. p.s. if it was a copy it would be the exact replica of the ther designers dress
btw could we have the name of the accusing designer? i'd like not to visit her store and spend my lindens on her designs.
Geesh! Paranoid much? It's so obviously NOT a copy. Has some of the same look yes, copy, no.
It's obvious it's not a copy, I see many differences in the gowns...the biggest one being that the Agnes gown is MUCH better in quality/appearance. Too bad someone's ego got hurt and had to create drama over it........
well were attacking her because shes attacking agnes and apparently is also trying to find other designers to try and get agnes again for more copyright, and its probably going to wreck agnes reputation and this is all from 1 dress- which she did not copy. just feel sorry for agnes that is all, the other designer maybe should have thought about what she said before she decided to attack agnes and possibly mess up agnes life on sl. Maybe if you want to be on the other side of the designer maybe you should go send her your blessings for trying to destroy agnes.
It's not a copy. Simple as that. I understand now that the cadre accusing is now using their influence to threaten retailers into not carrying designs by the accused. This is outrageous, and seems to be public ploy to malign the competition. If I was in the market for a gown, I would buy the pink one.
We have not name either designer and have not accused anyone - the accusation was NOT about COPYBOT no-one has said its a copybot issue - the original designers' grievance is in style and design not the actual prims - I am sitting on the fence as I consider both friends.
REMINDER - insulting or swearing will get your comment removed so please voice opinions but we are watching.
DANA
As I said previously but not clearly apparently, accusing someone of copying a style is ridiculous as that design is clearly available in numerous places. One being the picture of Barbie wearing it. Where did this accusing designer get the design, and is it not possible she got it from seeing Barbie in it? If so how can she claim Agnes copied "her" design when she herself copied "Mattel" design. Gee, maybe Matel could get a lawsuit out of this. Designers beware, you might get squashed if you copy an outfit you saw a picture of on the web and some other designer saw it first. Jealousy is a horrid thing. The fact is even the top notch designers in rl have duplicate styles. It's up to the individual consumer to decide which design they care to wear. If having similar designs is the problem, then I believe every designer in sl would be guilty and we all need to be put out of business. I'm sure nothing in the accusing designers store looks like any other designers. Hm, shall we check it out?
I don't think it's a copy. The skirts are very different. I love Agnes' gowns and I'm sure that she doesn't use copy bots. I'm sure she is a honest person.
I dont think it's a copy bot ... and if it was it's a bad one lol
style maybe ... what's the big deal anyway ...
The dress is not a copy because both the dresses ARE different. Similar but differnt. Meaning that it is not a form of copyrighting at all.
We are not speaking about a copybot, but we are speaking of the word imitation. Title of the article is changed now too so that people who have trouble reading what it says are in the clear now too.
I (The Newspaper) is not taking ANY side in this matter.
Things said in the comments are peoples opinions.
Some one famous once said that imitation is the highest form of flattery.
Personally, neither of these dresses is an original design. It is a repeat of designs seen in the real world. Additionally, is the accusor going after everyone in SL that has build a dress similiar to hers? If not then I think this issue should be tossed out as sour grapes.
The dresses are very different in build, number of prims, details such as the rousing around the waist on the pink dress. The seams for the system top are constructed differently. Even the material is different.
An orange and a grapefruit look similiar, does not mean they are the same thing, nor does it make them copies of each other.
The creator of the pink dress has stated where she got her inspiration from. What about the creator of the white dress? What was her inspiration? Is there any real evidence in this matter? Or are we all wasting time on he said/she said?
The Creator of the pink dress has explained how and why she created the dress along with pictures of what she based her design on. Neither style is original. What is original is the time and effort each builder put into their dress.
In my opinion those are the only merits that count. As far as imitating someone... anyone go to the hair fair this year? How many hair styles did we all see with rollers/beer cans in them? Anyone see those designers flipping out cause of it?
Grow up people.
As for the same style and design, it might be similar in design and style but then where did they get the design in the first place? it was a copy of the dress that was made for barbie, if that was the issue then both are copying the style of the original creator and doesn't have the right to say that it was their coz it wasn't theirs in the first place. Creativity is born by inspiration on what you see and you build on it, make it your own style. That is how designer create. It is just on this part they both like the same dress design that Barbie wore and built it on that. I don't think it was copying. If it was then I should think that the owner of Barbie should have a say to that.At least one of the designer has the picture of the real Barbie in her store, showing her honesty that the dress was made from it.
The issue here is not whether it's been copybotted or whether textures have been stolen. The bottom line comes from much underlying tension between these two designers. The designer of the pink dress has oft been cited as being less than creative or original. No one is going to dispute her talent of creating prims and textures, but when there are personal underlying issues involved, this becomes a much more apparent case of the designer of the pink dress making attempts to be just like the designer of the white dress because the designer of the white dress is seeing increasing success and mass respect from her designing peers. In addition to taking the idea of the form of this dress, the designer of the pink dress has also been cited in doing the same thing to other designers in the case of clothing design as well as marketing techniques. The recent contest launched by the designer of the pink dress was a BLATANT rip off of another designer's own contest which was released ONE WEEK prior. This is not a case of a one time occurance, and it's severely unfortunate that it's being presented as such because the designer of the white dress has every right and reason to be upset by this pink gown. I assure you, designers don't have time to go on random and rampant witch hunts, but only when action is taken will people ever learn that yes, we ARE watching you, and no, you cannot get away with taking the ideas of others and passing them off as your own.
I think it is laughable that this is even an issue. The pink dress is far superior in quality. I own the pink dress (and a lavender one that Agnes has available as well.) Maybe Mattel could get mad, but not the original designer. Unfortunately this seems to be sour grapes that Agnes has far more skill and made a similar dress far superior. Copy...absolutely not.
I don't think the question asked was about underlying issues. The question asked was Imitation or Not? Most have said "Not" In fact, not just most but "all" have said it's not. Yes, it is similar but the cut of the gown is a standard cut, so you can't claim imitation. In fact I have been working on a gown with the same cut and type of prims at the top based on a picture I saw in cosmospolitan. In other words, the white gown is in no way original. Wonder if the designer of the gown in cosmo stole the mattel barbie style. It's a completely different gown in cosmo from the barbie but some things such as the cut of the top are the same. The fact is there is a saying "nothing new under the sun" that I believe fits here. There is no such thing as original or new. There are just variations of old. We see that in rl all the time, with bell bottoms oops now called flare etc. If Agnes, has duplicated the exact dress from color to texture, to prims, etc then yes I would say it's an imitation. But she hasn't. The dresses are different in numerous ways. Hers with gathered bodice, the other not, etc. Hers with a frillier bodice, the other not. The fact is, any underlying issue between the two designers is between the two designers. I do quite a bit of shopping and spend quite a bit of money in sl on my clothing. I've been to all the top designers and purchased alot. Never have I seen imitations of other gowns in her store. Bottom line, if you look at the same magazines and websites as other designers for inspiration you will have similar designs. There is no way around it. Work on making the best clothing you can and let your work stand up for itself. As far as contests go? I get alot of spam for contests and no one has any original ideas for that either. If you have a treasure hunt then apparently you've copied someone else. If you have a picture contest, you've copied someone else. Let's get real people as much as you would like to think your idea is original, someone else thought of it before you. Keep your underlying issues to yourself and be proud of your own work. No matter how good you are at what you do there will always be someone better. To ruin someone over something as ridiculous as this is in very bad taste and will do more to hurt your business than one gown that is similar to yours.
I would think that people would be copying Agnes, rather than the other way around. Agnes has wonderful unusual designes, all of which are a joy to wear. She did not copy anything, hasn't the time to worry about other designers or their designs. She is on top with creation and naturally people attack the one on top. not a copy Nikii Blessed
It is clearly not a copybot production. Agnes Finney makes the BEST SL gowns out there. It is just simple case of jealousy on the other designers part. When I came to this website to view the gowns I knew immediately without ever having seen either gown before which was Agnes gown. Hers is better made, better detail, and all around prettier. Agnes You Rock! Other designer, get a life.
Obviously not a copy, tho the inspiration may be the same. That said, making your own version of something you see happens all the time in RL - and it's perfectly legal.
- Microsoft had for example their own versions of the fonts Helvetica and Times made, and called the Arial and Times New Roman.
- When designers show their expensive creations on the catwalk, you can be pretty sure to find cheap and very similar versions of the useful ones soon after in the shops for the normal consumer.
- When you get spare parts for your car, you don't have to get them from the car manufacturer. You can also get them from a third party designer.
All is legal. It doesn't turn illegal unless the copy is passed off as being the original.
Imitation is an advanced behavior whereby an individual observes and replicates
another's. The pink gown is a no way imitate the white gown, is it obviously a replica of Barbie gown. White gown is one typical gown you can see all over sl. No big deal, all should grow up. We all imitate from RL anyway.
so now you changed Copy to imitation... lol..
This is ridiculous .. the only imitation I see is to the barbie dress....
Yesterday I received a free dress who has similar skirt, SIMILAR.. is shorter but has similar flexis to the white one.... so is ridiculous talking about imitation or similar things.... I may take it as coincidence.. nothing else.. In RL there are lot of coincidences like this, jeans, shirts, et al...
(And if u owners of this news paper arent in any side, why to keep this voting still on... just let it go, looks like you have preference of one designer)
Yay! I have spotted difference lol, >>the upper sculpties, the belt the tube, the prints the skirt are totally different
u can tell the difference even if you're 100 meters away from the monitor lol
I am literally aghast at this. Having endured an attack where there was no possible defense except to appeal to what was there before people's eye, my heart goes out to Agnes...............
I admit that I don't wear her designs, but if my avatar was female I would proudly, smilingly, wear her creations. My partner, Lacie Beningborough was in tears when she heard this assault had taken place. It's a back alley mugging and so needless.
I can't share Agnes' pain but I share her outrage.....
Des
I'm sorry, but if you call this imitating then you better witch hunt 3/4 of Second Life which "imitated" an "idea" (and yes as far as I'm concerned that is all this bologna is, is an idea) which based a skirt "design" or "concept" off the Linden system skirt.
OMG! They all have a bell shape. They stole my idea for a dress.
Give me a break. If this complaint is taken seriously then we better ban most of SL if it's found they have any similarities to another dress (intentional or not).
Personally though I'm not mad at this other designer though. I pity them. And I think they're in for a big surprise when karma comes around to visit them. Personally I don't think the man upstairs cares about the difference of bearing false witness against someone in real life, over the phone, or on the internet.
There's a much higher judge that won't be swayed by petty complaints like this one. I stand behind Agnes too.
Whoever this other designer is, I pity you. Oh and by the way if I find out who you are you can be assured no one in any of my modeling agencies will EVER do business with you AGAIN. You've attacked an innocent woman.
Have a nice life.
There is not a designer in the world who can claim (truthfully at least) they've not got their idea or inspiration for their idea from something else. Even if Agnes had got her inspiration from the other designer, which I'm convinced she hadn't, he (or she) is a liar and a hypocrite to say they've lived in a glass bubble their entire life.
Whether subconsciously or not every inspired work since the dawn of man has come from at least one other thing in nature.
I put my support behind Agnes and recommend the accuser get some serious counseling.
I don't know Agnes personally but know what these people are doing to her, diffamating and trying to ruin her reputation in places where she has rentals.
That is not EVIDENTLY a copy or an imitation, and around 70 people here agree with this.
I am disgusted by the accusators. Disgusted, disgusted. They simply need some psychiatric help I guess.
These are so dissimilar that even *I* can tell the difference sitting 10 feet from my monitor, and I'm half-blind without my glasses.
SO very obviously not a copy!
/me heads for Agnes Finneys store in hope of finding something that suits her, in order to show support.
I've worked in the real life fashion world for 20 years. As soon as a dress is seen on a celebrity, it's copied. All that's needed is one very slight difference so as not to infringe the copyright laws. This has been tried and tested in the courts.
So here, if we apply the same criteria, then the pink dress is not a straight copy of the white dress. Both have their good points and you could buy both of them and get a lot of use out of them for various events. Isn't that what the customer wants? It seems such a shame to argue over this but I can understand it if reputation and finance are at risk.
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